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The Cycle

News/Business. Politics, the economy, media, sports and any other issues that grab people's attention. New.

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Israel 23, Us 10, Jefferson 9, Thomas Jefferson 8, Washington 7, Mr. Morsi 5, Obama 4, Susan Rice 3, U.s. 3, Benghazi 3, Egypt 3, America 3, Stephanie Gosk 2, Brian Hamilton 2, Jon 2, Humana 2, Krystal 2, United States 2, Atwater 2, Hamilton 2,
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  MSNBC    The Cycle    News/Business. Politics, the economy, media, sports  
   and any other issues that grab people's attention. New.  

    November 19, 2012
    12:00 - 12:59pm PST  

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twi twiky's eye. >> why everything old is new again for the gop. that's the problem. good thing we always keep it fresh in "the cycle." warning sirens are wailing across southern israel in day six of operation pillar of defense. more than 800 rounds have been fired at israel from gaza on wednesday, but many were intercepted by the iron dome defense system. more than 100 palestinians are dead including two dozen children. what are they doing? egypt has sent the top leadership of muslim brotherhood to stand with hamas. turkey will try to broker peace, and there's the u.s. president obama is monitor gt crisis from southeast asia cautioning israel against a full-scale ground invasion like
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t we saw four years ago. >> israel has every rilt to expect that it does not have missiles fired into its territory. if that can be accomplished without a ramping up of military activity in gaza, that's preferable. >> we have the situation covered with nbc's stephanie gosk in tel aviv and ambassador mark ginsberg, former u.s. ambassador to morocco who advised president carter on middle east policy. what's the latest? >> reporter: toure, negotiations right now are under way for a cease-fi cease-fire. the israeli cabinet is speaking to discuss possible options. they insist that the rocket fire out of gaza end immediately before they will agree to a cease-fire. on the palestinian side, they want the embargo in place since 2006 dropped, and they want the israelis to stop targeting palestinians. now, over the course of the last 24 hours, even though the negotiations are under way, there has been a back and forth
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of violence, uptick in violence. the israeli defense forces broaden the scope of targets looking to hit storage facilities and rocket launchers but also the residences of hamas leaders. there was the deadliest attack so far on sunday that killed 12 people in one building. today they target an international media building. they said they were going after a leader of the islamic jihad and the media in that building were hurt as a result of it. >> stephanie gosk, thank you and stay safe. ambassador ginsberg, let's talk about the middle east mindset. everyone agrees israel has the right to protect itself, but might it be sometimes that israel's best protection is to not attack? when you think about people in hamas and hezbollah, when they were martyrs when they die during fighting, they go to heaven and get posters of themselves put on the street forever. they want to be martyrs, so whatever attack israel launches,
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hamas keeps going because they want to die. the person they killed, the head of hamas' military wing was in the midst of considering a cease-fire. he was a person who could have made that happen. so in taking him out, they sort of damaged the potential for a long-term cease-fire. is israel taking a step backwards in being so aggressive here? >> not at all. as a matter of fact, i happen to believe that the narrative of this is that as long as hamas continues to fire terrorist missiles into israel and israel's compelled to retaliate, hamas is setting up the stage for major civilian casualties. it's as if every missile that hamas fires at israel is going to result in almost the suicide of its own people, and that is really the shame here. whether or not there's going fob a cease-fire, it's really not going to solve a fundamental
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problem. the palestinians are caught between a government in gaza, which is unprepared, unprepared to negotiate any peace treaty with israel. let's remember here, this is a terrorist organization that is dedicated to israel's destruction. it has refused to negotiate with israel any viable, long-term truce. so i don't accept the proposition that mr. jabiri who was the head of the military wing was prepared to negotiate a long-term truce. ever since 2008 when israel invaded gaza to stop the last round of missiles, there was nothing but continued missile firing across the border. >> but ambassador, in terms of security, you know, for israel and in terms of peace for the palestinian people, i wonder what the longer term picture is here. we've had operations like this by the ief every few years. you have rockets fired in israel and israel is going to take aggressive military action to top them and cut them off at the
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source. look what happened now, four years later after the bombardment in 2008, we had more rockets fired in a shorter duration of time now. it seems like this is just going to keep happening. hamas will continue to get rockets, and it's not practical to bombard every few years. what's the longer term solution here besides just attacking the heck out of palestinians every few years. >> well, you and i share the same concern that the problem here is that the longer this continues, if it was a missile today that could have been shot down by iron domes, israel's iron dome system, then rockets three years from now could be a nuclear missile provided by iran where hamas gets most of its nuclear missiles right now. the fact of the matter is in the absence of a viable two-state solution that provides the palestinians the homeland i believe they should have to live in peace and security with israel, hamas will continue to
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be able to seize the initiative as it is trying to do from the palestinian authority. in the absence of any peace process lies at the fundamental challenge we all face, which is without there being a solution to the palestinian problem, there's not a solution to the fundamental problem involving israel's security. >> ambassador, senator lindsey graham made interesting comments on "meet the press" this weekend about egypt. i wanted to play those and then get your thoughts. >> egypt, watch what you do and how you do it. you're teetering with a congress on having your aid cut off if you keep enciting violence between the israelis and the palestinians. >> obviously, precarious situation there in egypt, new leadership, how will they be involved, will they be an as secretary to brokering peace? they are the second largest recipient of u.s. foreign aid. should we be threatening to lessen or eliminate egyptian aid if they do not cooperate in the situation, and do we have more
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leverage over them because of that foreign aid? >> i'm not sure that the foreign aid, which amounts to $1.3 billion a year in military assistance, and 2$250 million i economic assistance makes that much of a difference to the government of mr. morsi. that said, he needs multilateral economic assistance to fulfill the agenda to provide economic opportunity for egyptians. if mr. morsi decides to throw his lot with hamas and to support hamas and its aggressive stance against israel, then the obama administration is going to find it increasingly difficult to justify the assistance. now, is mr. morsi trying to play a useful role right now in brokering a cease-fire? i hope so. right now all of the parties are in cairo trying to do so, and if he's able to achieve that cease-fire, then mr. graham, senator graham should take a good, hard look at the path
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mr. morsi is trying to do his best. the jury is still out, but let's encourage mr. morsi to do the right thing. >> ambassador, let's talk in a lot of gaza and everything in the middle east, let's talk about the state of the state department and the delicate task of appointing a new secretary there. i think it's safe to say that hillary clinton's record has been a relatively good one and unt untarnished, although now she's coming under scrutiny for the benghazi affair. along with that, of course, susan rice is a controversial figure at this point not just because of benghazi, but folks like dana millbank coming out and questioning her qualifications. aside from that, you have john kerry who most aagree is completely qualified, but is putting someone totally new in that office with everything going on right now the best idea? what would you advise president obama to do right now? >> oh, gosh. that's a tough question, because
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susan rice is being unfairly pillared for what happened here. at the same time the state department is primarily responsible for the breakdown in security. the failure to provide adequate security to our ambassador in libya. that investigation is clearly something that mrs. clinton is going to have to reckon with. in a choice right now where the middle east is aflame and where iran ultimately becomes the greatest diplomatic and potential military challenge that the united states faces, it's clear that the president's going to need sure footing with a secretary of state who has the stature and respect around the world and by the way with congress. i really feel na perhaps senator kerry in the end is going to probably be that person who has that -- carrying that stature and knowledge. yet, at the same time be perfectly frank. what is happening to susan rice is unfair and inappropriate.
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she doesn't deserve to have a reputation tarnished. she was the last person in the world who was responsible for what took place in benghazi. >> ambassador, totally agree with that. back to israel and palestine. how do we get to that two haf state solution that's the way guard? >> i'd like to see the president make a nijtsd decision to reinvigorate his middle east efforts to in effect fulfill the xhinlts he made to cairo in 2009. plenty of people have come and gone. you had dennis ross and senator mitchell sxo many people trying to negotiate a peace process, and they all abandoned the playing field and left the president high and dry. i hate to see the president in that situation, because in the absence of having a viable, honest broker role for the united states to play, it doesn't provide the parties any incentive to encourage them to renegotiate its solutions. you see what's taking place with
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gaza. i'd like a new refreshed, reinvigorated middle east team to come in and basically have the president's ongoing support to do what's necessary to question the waters. in the absence of doing that, the president has a very tough root canal to deal with on gaza and believe me, these migraines, if i use the metaphor further are worse for him. >> it's absolutely right. mark ginsberg, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. thank you for having me. >> up next, the world bank turning up the heat, but krystal seeing the sunny side. she tries to talk steve off the ledge. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion.
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new warnz today from the world bank, and this time it's on climate change. the report says the poorest countries will suffer the most. if the earth gets 7 degrees hotter by the end of the ocean will rise three feet and freshwater will be scarce especially in developing nations. we're looking at how energy reform can balance climate change with our energy needs, and guys, last time we talked about climate change and in particular the potential for action aat the congressional federal level, i was quite depressed, not my norm. i have actually found a way to be optimistic despite this quite gloomy report. first of all, at the federal level, senator ron white, a democrat, and senator lisa murkowski do seem to be working
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together in a productive way which is exciting. both have a history of bipartisan accomplishments, so that's encouraging. there's a new report out from the center for climate strategies and they had an interesting chart that shows we have declined in the amount of emissions. the economy is the biggest factor, and if you look at this chart, that top pink ribbon is the decline in admissions because of the economy. all the rest of that stuff, though, together is the decline because of other factors, actions taken at the federal, state and local level. that reminded me what an important role the states have here, too, and, in fact, california has just started a new cap and trade program four days ago. they had their first action for greenhouse gas credits. they would be the eighth largest economy in the world. they're the largest state economy, so when they act it has a big impact actually. >> not quite as optimistic as you --
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>> i didn't persuade you? >> t >> not yet. there is a new mood on the hill. consumerism is a major problem. the developed nations in the north of the globe use so much more than the nations, the poorer nations on the south side of the globe. it's not just the things that we buy that we tell each other to buy that are designed and advertising and thank you madison avenue make us want to buy, but it's the waste from manufacturing. we use so much more metal and energy and paper and water than the people in the south. we talked about recycling. we're better at recycling than a few decades ago, but people in poorer countries reuse the things we throw aaway after one or two uses. they reuse them over and over for years. they're far, far ahead of us in terms of recycling because they need to be. the amount of waste that each of us creates is a huge part of this problem.
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i don't think that that's getting much better, because consumerism is still so -- such a massive driver of the way we behave in this country. >> it's a part of our culture. you're absolutely right. i think if we can put the politics aside, if you ask most people, average citizens, do they want clean energy? do they want a solution to climate change? they would say, yes. but i think the problem is that politics has kind of corrupted the conversation. probably on both sides. a look at a conversation you and i all had recently about the upcoming bacon shortage and how sad and scared we were about that because the midwest -- the only way to make this conversation real to people is to talk about bacon. but because of that massive drought in the midwest, it was making corn prices more expensive and corn, of course, feeds pigs and so if there's a corn shortage, there's a bacon shortage.
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also, corn is in almost every you buy in the grocery store. it is a huge part of our economy. well, the epa requires, as part of their renewable fuels standard, 40% of our corn production go to balancing out our gasoline with ethanol. okay? that's fine. that's another topic. the grocery manufacturers association and a bunch of other groups, 20 of them asked the epa for a waiver this year because corn prices are skyrocketing. they want a waiver on that mandate. the epa not only said no, they raised the mandate to 4.5% above what it was last year. it's just -- i mean, you're going to have a more thanksgiving dinner grocery list because of it. i think most people would say, we just need solutions that don't put ideology before prag mattism. if a one year holiday from this mandate would recognize the realities of the market, then
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maybe that would be a good thing. now instead congress is going to go and beg for the entire rfs to be completely stricken. now where are we? back to ground zero. >> if we want to take the politics out, why not have iowa be the leadoff state for the caucuses for both parties? it's a bipartisan consensus. >> you'll get iowa hate mail. >> i love iowa. >> we love iowa. go hawkeyes/cyclones. and the northern iowa panthers. >> good save. >> let's try to put this in -- it's true. let's put it in perspective, though. i get the optimism that krystal is saying here from a domestic standpoint. i understand that. the problem is it's really a global problem, and what i mean is for years we were talking about the threat or challenge to keep the rising temperature before the year 2100 to 2 degrees celsius. that's sort of the target. now, what the world bank is
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saying is we're basically on course for well over 3 degrees, maybe 4 degrees. all of these things happen if we hit 4 degrees. the difference between now and the ice age is 5 or 6 degrees celsius. that's substantial. yeah, we've taken some steps in this country, federal level, state level, we've taken good steps and done a good job in the short term of controlling emissions. even if we continue on that pace and do more, what about china and india and the rest of the world? they may not be as equipped as we are, weather politically, or anything else to deal with this. we could do everything right and still be screwed. >> another hope is that, you know, noinnovation that could occur here could benefit the developing world. we have to wait and see. governing in a time of transition. what president obama could learn from another tall, cool, and cerebral president. best-seling author john pam meem
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chuch talks about his new book about thomas jefferson. that's next in the guest spot. ♪ [ male announcer ] jill and her mouth have lived a great life. but she has some dental issues she's not happy about. so i introduced jill to crest pro-health for life. selected for people over 50. pro-health for life is a toothpaste that defends against tender, inflamed gums, sensitivity and weak enamel. conditions people over 50 experience. crest pro-health for life. so jill can keep living the good life. crest. life opens up when you do.
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some people put everythingng intotheir name on the door, and their heart into their community. small business saturday is a day to show our support. a day to shop at stores owned by our friends and neighbors. and do our part for the businesses
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that do so much for us. on november 24th, let's get out and shop small.
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♪ the president was thomas jefferson ♪ he made a deal with napoleon ♪ ♪ how would you like to sell a mile or three or a hundred or a now ♪ so in 1803 the louisiana territory was sold to us ♪ ♪ without a fuss ♪ and gave us lots of elbow room ♪ >> i love schoolhouse rock. i love thomas jefferson widely considered one of the greatest presidents of all time, and also one of the most fascinating figures in american history. he was the third president. he knew a lot about medicine, architecture and religion and sdins. he created the first swivel chair. he had racy affairs throughout
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his life. thomas jefferson, the art of power, he tells his story in luscious detail. since we couldn't book jefferson to talk to us because he's not among the living, we have the next best thing in the guest spots today, jon meachem. welcome. you how are you? >> thank you. i haven't seen schoolhouse rock in a long time. that's great. >> i watch it every day. listen, thomas jefferson and obama. lots of similarities. we've noted some. there's policy ideas, too, in there. what do you think that thomas jefferson -- -- deep-rooted anger. i didn't put the deep-rooted anger. we know how i feel about saying that about obama. what do you think that thomas jefferson could teach obama going into the second term? >> i think the main thing is you actually have to like or at least pretend you like other people in washington. i think that's the main one.
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every night when congress was in session, jefferson would have lawmakers down to dinner. he didn't mix parties. he wasn't looking for that. emted to weave attachments to himself. he had all federalists and republicans. it worked in the sense that he became harder to caricature and to demonize because he had folks who felt some sense of social connection to him. not saying that that translates into a vote for him every time, but the more you know someone, the easier it is to possibly give them the benefit of the doubt in a tight vote. >> so, okay, let's talk about the slavery piece, because it's a major part of what historians are arguing about, jefferson going forward. fights throughout his life against slavery before he becames the president and while he's the president, yet, he owned 600 slaved throughout his life, and he knew -- he talked about that slavery is kcorrosiv
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for master and slave. a lot don't understand how it's corrosive for the slave owner. how do we reconcile the things. how did slave owning corrode him as well? >> you don't reconcile them, because fundamentally they're paradoxical beliefs. the author feld slaves. as a young man he fought for reform in the institution. he lost publicly and decisively on four or five occasions, and there's two things that we know politicians don't like. that's losing publicly and decisively. so he did something very uncharacteristic. he gave up. jefferson created the politics of optimism of american life in many ways. far more than washington and adams and hamilton. he believed that you could talk about tomorrow in a way that would inspire people and push them ahead. slavery was something that
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because it made his own life possible in so many ways he simply could not find a way to marshall the political will to reform the institution. so he gave up. and my view of the moral utility of history, a rather grand phrase after schoolhouse rock is is that instead of feeling self-righteous in retrospect, we could use the failings of the past to inform our own moral antenna for our own age and make sure that posterity doesn't have a lot to criticize us for. >> i wonder, john, are we aware enough, are people today aware enough of the failings of a jefferson and george washington and any of the founding fathers because we grow up and lionize the founding fathers. especially in the tea party era people show up as their favorite founding fathers. do we grapple enough with their shortcomin shortcomings? >> are you suggesting there's anything odd about dressing like
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finding father? no, i think part of the reason i do what i do and when i do these books is we shouldn't lionize them. they were men before they were monuments. they lose their capacity to teach, and if you lose your capacity your teach, i believe you lose your capacity to inspire. i don't know about you all, but i certainly lerarn a lot more from sinners than saints. if you see that there were flawed failings, sinful human beings in the past who were able to transcend their appetites and master their ambitions to leave the country a little better off, then we can, too. i think that's one of the points of history, is not to make ourselves feel bad or to it treat it as a historical antidepressant, if only we were like they were then. we are like they were then in many ways. jefferson said about partisanship that men divided
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themselves over the principle of whether the interests of the many or the interest of the nobles should govern human affairs. since those questions convulsed in greece and rooem, there's nothing new about the ultimate forces that divide it. we have to find a way to get through the storm, because that's what democracies do. >> jon, jefferson had a lot on his plate. he was nursing a young nation through its infancy, and one of the things that's been a little frustrating for me in the past week or so has been to see some of the folks in the far right corner of my party reacting pretty poorly to the re-election of president obama and threatening to secede. i imagine they found the founding fathers including jefferson to be something of an inspiration for them, as i have. i wonder what you think thomas jefferson would say to their threats to leave this country that he helped create. >> well, he believed in the union, as you said, with all his
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heart. he was willing to give him lis for t. the founders believed, because they did didn't know how the story would turn out, tried for any reason and executed. the tower of london wasn't that far away. the idea that somehow or another the union was an optional choice, it was not something that jefferson contemplated. at one point he thought perhaps there could be a western union, if it got too big, but that was one thought. his basic devotion to the idea that we are one country and that the country itself, we have to care enough about each other to make mutual concessions for the good of the whole. otherwise, we're not a republic. that's what a republic is. if you want one way, one answer, and you don't want contention and you don't want debate and you don't want to be disappointed, then you better find a king who is always going to agree with you.
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that's the only way to do that. >> well said. >> that's the only way to do it. so the whole point of politics, american politics is to argue and to find a way to get through given storms. jefferson used nautical imagery all the time. for a land-locked guy from virginia, he's a frustrated sailor, i think. he was taking about how the sides of our argosy would come through and show the skill of their builder. he built something that would endure chaos, because chaos is inherent. it's inherent to the way we govern ourselves and live. the miracle, the damn miracle of the thing is it's as orderly as it is. >> jon, one of the things that amazes me is how even history is so politicized. texas tried to ban jefferson from the public school cripple lum because of religious beliefs. how accurate of you in general do you think that the american
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public has of our own history and specifically of jefferson? >> well, you know, jefferson -- one of the issues with him is that he was soo eloquent for so long on so many different topics, you can quote him on almost any side of any issue. he's like winston churchill and the bible. you can have nilgdz point pillows on either side of the couch. that's a sign of the long and rich and varied life. i think his religious views are widely misunderstood. many conservatives would like him to be this cold eighthist, which he wasn't. he believed in the cultural utility of religion. he believed in religious liblt which has a religious person myself, religious liberty is fundament fundamental, so to speak, and critical to the actual practice of religion because faith that's coerced isn't faith. it's tyranny.
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if god himself didn't compel obedience, then no man or government should try. i think the other thing that comes up a lot with jefferson is he's caricatured as a hopeless hypocrite. the author of declaration of independence is a slave owner, we can't learn from him. he was not a conventional christian. he must be a atheist. we can't deal with him. one of the reasons we're talking about him here is that he embodied the best and the worst and all the multiple variations of the american experience all in one remarkable frame, in one remarkable life so long ago that it feels very modern. thomas jefferson is the one founder i can imagine having a drink with. you know, i really can't imagine hanging out with george washington, and i'm as boring of a white guy you can get. >> oh, stop it.
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>> not true. >> i couldn't do that. john adams, i can't. he would be cross. hamilton would send shirtless e-mails. the whole thing is -- >> jon, stop it. you're too humble. i know guys way more boring than that. i really enjoyed the book. really heart-breaking the part about sally hemmings. he takes her to paris and she's technically free there. he said i'm not returning with you to america, and then he twists her arm sxaing i'll free your children so then she has to come back. it's very heart-breaking. great book. congratulations to you. thank you very much. >> thank you all for having me. >> one place jefferson's skills with compromise could come in handy is this gradual fiscal slope fiasco. up next, the impact on jobs and hiring. ♪ you are my sunshine, my only sunshine ♪
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progresso. in what world do potatoes, bacon and cheese add up to 100 calories? your world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon... creamy cheese... 100 calories... [ chef ] ma'am [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. we are back with some new numbers about private business
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and the american work force. the "wall street journal" conducted an analysis of spepding at the nation's largest publicly traded companies and determined that investment is falling off a cliff so to speak. half of the top 40 companies have announced plans to cut spends this year or next. many blame it on washington to reconcile spending and taxes. the journal push lished a special spread in morning features big business ceos calling on congress to shut up and doing something. our next guest claims companies are smart not to hire now because they understand a simple rule of business. you can't spend more than you take in, a rule many scold the federal government for ignores. brian hamilton is the head of a financial company. government as business analogy, i'd love to get into that later. i want to start to something that jumped out in this story. we talk about companies scaling back on investment, and it seems we have this debate for a few years by now by why companies
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aren't investing more. is it because there's a lack of demand in the economy. there's one thing this article cites. it says it can be traced to easing of demand. it seems to me that is a siren call for more stimulus, isn't it? to create demand in the economy? >> that's funny. before we start we go from jefferson to hamilton. that's interesting. here's what's going on. private companies are growing consistently over the past three years, so basically the demand is definitely there. what's happening in washington -- you guys cover this all the time -- is there's no consensus or agreement, very little debate on policies. we've got 27 million private companies out there. you can't throw policy at them on december 31 this year and expect them to adapt and plan for their businesses. so here's what's really going on. we did a survey about this. they're uncertain. they the got through health care and that's over right now.
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they need runway to be prepared. the policies would be wonderful if they were good. we want that. really from private companies today they need to know what's coming at them if you understand what i'm saying. >> we do. uncertainty is a huge part of this. tell me, what are the things that businesses are most worried about? i'm going to give you a list, and i hope you put them in order of greatest concern to least concern. one is, european crisis. you've got what's going on in israel right now. the fiscal cliff, and obama care, which you referenced earlier. which of those most concerning, which are least concerning? >> can i say none of the above, by the way? >> you can, but i'm going to ask you -- i'm still going to ask you to weigh in on those things, though. >> i will do that. here's the thing. look, sometimes we take the simple and make it complex and sometimes we take the complex and make it too sirchl. businesses operate in a very simple way with regard to how
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they run themselves. they're looking at one sirchl thing, what are my revenues going to be over the next 12 months. i'll answer it, or two years and what are the expenses going to be? if those are good and they feel stable and they have a good idea what taxes are going to be, then they will hire people. they've done this for 200 years. americans are good br entrepreneurs. they have to know early on how are expenses affected? even health care. legitimate public policy debate, but it took so long to create all the uncertainty. you have to realize it's easy not to be arrogant but lofty on the understanding of businesses. they operate in environments that most us won't accept. it's very risky, so every day they try to minimize their risk. here's the thing. the message to washington is make a policy if it's not great and get it out early. all the points you just mentioned are things that keep dragging and dragging, and it's
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just creating this malaise that is really hurting us. >> i understand what you're saying about there about uncertainty, but isn't that nature of our democracy? it's set up to have two sides and debate and change things to adjust to what's happening. it doesn't seem like that's a new phenomenon. would businesses prefer we have a dictatorship to set policy? >> can i say yes? i'm not going to say yes. here's the thing, look, it's true. remember, over the past 40 or 50 years, let's face it, the parties are the discourses getting much more poisonpoisono. people are so convinced they're completely right about everything. they're not coming to the table. it has dramatically changed in the last 30 years. also keep in mind that spending since 1954 -- i wasn't around then, but spending goes up every single year. the government keeps spends money and actually tax revenues
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go up as well. so businesses are practical people. they know money in money out, and if that's not right on the government side, they know that a $16 trillion debt is a major problem. remember, they're operating under an umbrella, which is the united states of america, and they have to feel good about that family unit or that umbrella. >> so should we go over the fiscal cliff, then? that basically means instant massive austerity debt cutting deficit reduction? >> heire's what we need to do. if you double tax revenue, our debt would go down by $5 trillion through the next ten years. if we cut all discretionary spending, our debt would still go up. so what probably has to happen is there's got to be compromise, right? we need more revenues probably. no question about it. we definitely need less spending. we've got to operate this house just like we would our family budget. >> all right. brian hamilton, thanks for
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joining us. up next, we have breaking news for you, and we're not talking israel. we're talking twinkies. i had enough of feeling embarrassed about my skin. [ designer ] enough of just covering up my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough. ♪ [ spa lady ] i started enbrel. it's clinically proven to provide clearer skin. [ rv guy ] enbrel may not work for everyone -- and may not clear you completely, but for many, it gets skin clearer fast, within 2 months, and keeps it clearer up to 9 months. [ male announcer ] because enbrel®, etanercept, suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, and nervous system and blood disorders have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure,
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>> that's a big twinkie. >> tell them about the twinkie. >> what about the twinkie? >> twinkies? breaking news this afternoon in the fate of the snack cake. just this hour hostess and it's striking union have agreed to mediation talks tomorrow. it's the last ditch effort to prevent the twinkies maker by having to sell itself off piece by piece. the best brand name ever could be up for grabs. think twinkles ho-hos, ding dongs, devil dogs, snow balls, and while hostess and the union try to work out their difficulties, one of the names on everybody's list is a bread making company based in mexico. what will happen to the twinkie? could it be headed south of the border? let's backspin. there is so much good stuff in here and so much terrible news. i mean, no one wants a country
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without a twinkle. i grew up on hostess. twinkies and the others. let's not forget about the ding dong and the ho ho and the snowball. >> the hostess cupcake. >> we actually bear bait with hostess products when they go off the shelf. >> how could you waste them? >> bears love them. >> they're smart. bears that are smarter than the average bear love them. >> yeah, because they're delicious. i don't want to live in a world without the twinkie. i think because they're such an iconic brand, someone is going to eat them up and put them back on the shelf. >> i love twinkies as much as the next person. i don't want to trivialize it so much only because 5600 people could be out of work. i want to keep that in mind because we talk a lot about this idea that the twinkie is an iconic american product and we talk about the idea that america doesn't make things anymore. i think the story of the potential demise of hostess kind ever gets to the heart of why that's happening. it's a story we've seen a lot in
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the last generation. it's a private equity firm. it's like a bain capital type form that came in, loaded the thing up with debt. the ceo -- >> it's mitt romney's fault. >> it is. >> ripple wood holdings i think it's called. the ceo got a 300% bonus. he goes to the union and says all this debt, all the interest payments are bankrupting us, it's up to you, union, to take a massive cut in pay. but i'm thinking about it and i said here is one other thing, if these talks work, how can you really rescue and revive the brand? you need a new spokesman. you need somebody who doesn't mind like gorging themselves on hostess products on air. this is delicious. give me more hostess products. >> be careful. >> or we can have a healthy young woman eating fried twin e twinki twinkies. >> this is funny, when i lived in louisville, kentucky, before the vice presidential debate, i went out for a nice meal of
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sushi and fried twinkies. i tweeted about it recently, if only i had known that could have been my last. i can't tell you how many people chastised me, i was going to have a heart attack, what about my unborn child. it is a free country, america. i will eat a fried twinkle if i want to. >> yes, you will. >> brian williams told you before you came in, if bimbo owns twinkie -- >> it's a little redundant he said. >> up next, a blaps frst from t past that toure says rings true. ♪ the sweetest thing ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of all day pain relief. this season, discover aleve.
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in the gop's current civil war there's much talk about how to better message to latinos and how immigration policy should change but little discussion of the roots of the problem like an alcoholic who vows to avoid bars but never confronts why they're an addict. the 2012 campaign contained relentless hostility toward latinos and blacks. >> barack obama's been the best food stamp president in american history. he's put more people in food stamps than any president in history. >> i wish this president would learn how to be an american. >> ann was born in henry ford hospital. i was born at harper ford hospital. nobody has ever asked to see my birth certificate. they know this is the place we were born and raised. >> a part of the modern version of the southern strategy.
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this has remained embedded in the soul of the party via nixon's war on grudrugs and 201 discussion of the 47% and redistribution andself-deportation. just ways of telling working class white we're here to protect you from the lazy people of color. the game is transparent but was further decoded by an infamous 1981 interview with lee atwater. it was reported without his name until years after his death but it's veracity was still doubted until james carter iv went to the widow of the political scientist who originally interviewed atwater and got her to release the original sound and that's why we now hear the brilliant atwater explaining how to turn racial anxiety into votes. he says that the overtly racist appeals of the '50s will backfire by say 1968 so in the '70s and '80s they had to learn
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how to be more subtle. >> so you say stuff like forced busing, states rights and all that stuff. you're getting be a strukt now and you're talking about cutting tacks and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a by-product of them is that blacks get hurt worse than whites. and subconsciously maybe that is part of it i'm not saying that. but i'm saying that if it is getting that be a strukt and that coded, we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the another. >> it sounds like he would recognize that working in be a strux whether it's states right and busing. either way the true ineven ri yent is white racial anxiety. this has never been a secret within the gop. nixon's campaign manager sod whites who are